Volume and Gain
Hi David,
When testing amps with knobs for both volume and gain, is there a reliable rule of thumb for where to set them in order to get closer to the blues harp sound we want? I was playing through a few in a music store today, and it seemed like high gain, low volume was most reliable, but I'm not sure why that was the case or if it is a consistent pattern.
Thanks.
Interesting: so you are saying we want to keep the gain/distortion relatively low, and then raise the clean level with the volume knob? I would have thought the opposite because we want a bluesy crunch and growl. Is it the case then that we want a clean amp sound, and that the distorted crunch comes from overdriving the mic element which then hopefully overdrives the amp circuits to dirty up the sound?
Thanks for the help: I'm struggling to wrap my head around the effective micing/among process. I've watched the What You Need To Know series, and I'm currently working through the videos of you Dennis and Gary testing amps. It's all very helpful, but I certainly don't have it figured out just yet.
"Interesting: so you are saying we want to keep the gain/distortion relatively low, and then raise the clean level with the volume knob?"
That's correct. Distortion made on amps taylor to guitarists (these are guitar amps), and are too distorted for harp... they feedback way too easily.
"I would have thought the opposite because we want a bluesy crunch and growl. Is it the case then that we want a clean amp sound, and that the distorted crunch comes from overdriving the mic element which then hopefully overdrives the amp circuits to dirty up the sound?"
Yes, you got it! Strong mic signal and working the tubes... we want the tubes creating the crunch, not the distortion channel. Tube distortion is very dynamic and alive, where circuit distortion, though can sound good, is flat... no change in response when you dig in... not alive. If you're trying a non-tube amp, then crank the distortion.
"Thanks for the help: I'm struggling to wrap my head around the effective micing/among process. I've watched the What You Need To Know series, and I'm currently working through the videos of you Dennis and Gary testing amps. It's all very helpful, but I certainly don't have it figured out just yet. "
Keep the questions coming!
"Keep the questions coming!"
Well, if you insist...
I'm trying to make sense of wattage and how (or if) that measure is a good indicator of whether an amp is good for harp. My hunch is that wattage alone is not enough, but that it somehow goes in combination with other factors. So, for instance: I used to get the impression that low wattage (5-10) was better for harp because by overdriving the mic and the tubes we could drive the amp further than it wants to go at which point it would break up in ways that we want in order to get good crunch. But in a few videos on the site Gary Smith in particular talks about using 50 watt amps; your Wezo-45 is large; Greg Heuman talks about bigger being better (http://blowsmeaway.com/all%20about%20harmonica%20microphones.pdf); and harp-specific amp companies like HarpGear and Sonny Jr. make big amps in the neighborhood of 50 watts. I had previously thought that anything over 15w or so would have trouble breaking up before feedback becuase it could handle a stronger signal more easily. But clearly big amps can also be overdriven, so I must be mistaken about that. What then is the common factor between a 6-watt Memphis Mini and a 35-watt Cruncher and 50-watt HarpGear 50 that makes them all desirable for harp? And what is it that they have that, say, a Mesa Boogie tube amp doesn't have? Put differently: what distinguishes a harp-friendly tube amp from a non-harp friendly tube amp?
In one of your videos you use the phrase "saturate the tubes," which I think is what you mean here when you talk about overdriving the tubes rather than the circuits. Saturated tubes overdrive giving us a better harp sound than circuits manipulated to do so in a "distortion channel"? So maybe that's the common factor? Tubes that are capable of being over driven by a mic signal?
Hello PM42. The larger the amp, the more wattage it uses to drive the multitude of speakers. The Fender Bassman for example, which is the industry standard for blues harmonica players, is 45 watts and runs 4x10" speakers. The Wezo you mentioned has two 10" speakers. So, generally speaking, the more speakers it drives, the more wattage. The Memphis Mini has one speaker, thus the low wattage. I simple way to think about wattage is how much air your need to push (more speakers = more air = more volume).
The rest of your questions... the honest answer is that I don't know. I'm not a tech, and even then, I've heard many of them through years adamantly say that this and that needs to be in an amp, and another tech disagrees. We (the harmonic community) just did what you did, found what amps are generally known to sound good for harp (Fender, Gibson, Supro, Masco, etc., and newer amps like the Memphis Mini) and do our best to go out and try them (at jams, harmonica workshops like SPAH, etc.). I wish I could be more definitive, but in reality this is how we all do it. Most players have a large amp for gigs (Fender Bassman) and small amp for the studio (single 10" Gibson amp or Masco for example).
Got it: thanks for all the help. I'll keep rooting around and playing as many as I can.
Sure, happy to. Best wishes on your search.
Hello PM42. I cover this in this lesson https://www.bluesharmonica.com/amps_what_you_need_know, but the quick answer is that GAIN is your distortion level and your VOLUME is your clean level. Turn your GAIN up just a tad (the amp will not work with VOLUME alone) and then turn up the VOLUME until it's at the level you want. Usually that's good. If you want more distortion at a lower level, use more GAIN and less VOLUME. Experiment with the mix until you're happy.