Tuning
Hiya again Kinya,
So I've started tuning my project harp (this is just as hard as I thought it'd be haha;P).
So the plan right now is to tune by octaves. This week I've worked at putting 4 blow right on 0 and I've been tuning 1 blow up (it was lower) and 7 blow down (it was higher).
I've noticed that with my phone tuner I have about 1 or 2 tries to look at the note's cent before it acumulates humidity and moves down. Just not sure how to 'know' for sure my 4 blow is tuned properly. Been thinking of finding a pitch generator and checking against it...
So far 1 to 4 is not perfect but pretty close (it's hard to hear the beating) but I think I got 4 to 7 right on the money.
I have my peterson 490 coming in the mail tomorrow so I should have more precise readings starting then(and apparently this thing can see an octave!?) and in about a month I'll have my tuning table from John (really cool guy btw! Talked to him on the phone and he gave me a sweet deal).
So right now I'm tuning with the cover plates on (this is the easiers for me with this harp) so correct me if I'm wrong but I should be at 444hz right? I know 442 is for covers off. Also thinking that on the table I should also go to 442?
One really cool thing John showed me is you can get a presure reader installed with a bellow and valve so you can control the 'breath force' going to the plate. Now this is interesting because if I can tune say 4 blow to 0 with my covers I can then go and find out exactly how much breath force to set the table at to get the exact same reading on the peterson. Meaning I could tune the rest of the harp with that seting and do it right from the table no?
I've also had this passing idea. If notes go flat a little bit after some playing shouldn't we tune just a tad (3-6 cents) sharp or is that a bad idea?
Anything I'm missing I should be aware of ?
okay so if I understood correctly:
1- at 444HZ I'm tuning a tad on the sharp side. ( when exactly is this useful ?)
2- If the goal is to be at 440HZ on the band stand that means when I check my tuning on a fully assembled harmonica should I set my tuner to 440HZ ?
Also noticed seydel recommends tuning the harmonica when wet @ 442-443( when it's been played a little and it's warmed up and covers off so straight off the comb). Now I've thought about this as well but IMO it would make it that much harder to tune perfectly, no ? You can never really control how wet the reeds will get while you can wipe them dry and take an average (sound the note for a few seconds and quickly get a reading/ wipe the reed and repeat.)
Also noticed the blow notes seem to go around 5-10 cent flat quickly after you play them but then they sorta stay there. (Maybe it's worthwhile to tune the blow plate slightly sharp. I dono 3-5 cents). I can't imagine the draw plate will suffer from this nearly as much ? Moar testing is required lol
The Peterson arrived yesterday and wow what a monster this thing is. I thought it would be the size of a car player (remember the removable car players ppl used to have a decade or so ago haha ;P).
This thing is really fun to use. I can't wait for my setup to be complete (still need a work bench haha but I'm getting there)!!
p.s: if I keep going like this I'll have to put harpsmith in my signature too ;P haha
Chris
Hey Chris, I found five things that de-tune the diatonic harmonica reeds after I had removed the reed plates from the Tuning Table and installed the reed plates back onto the harmonica comb:
- condensation, aspiration
- handling the reed too much
- breath pressure
- cover plates
- backing up my car over the harmonica
You make a fair point regarding the Blow reeds. When we exhale, so does the saliva, condensation, etc. This lands onto,then weigh down the blow reeds. However, as many players progress with their techniques, the flow of moisture will also calm down. In addition, for Blues-2nd position-type players, most of the notes we play are on the draw side. Empirically, after tuning a few thousand reeds over the years--I think tuning the blow reeds sharper than the draw reeds would drive me bonkers. Stay away from the 444Hz. I see no purpose.
Regarding Seydel, my hunch is that when Seydel introduced the world's first line of stainless steel reeds for harmonicas, all of their diatonic harmonicas were equipped with non-vented covered plates (muted voicing). My hunch is that the Seydel techs discovered that the voicing of their harmonicas were more pleasing at a 442Hz ~ 443Hz calibration. Few listeners would argue, that a harmonica tuned sharper than the rest of the band would stand out more. Maybe that was Seydels intention all along ;o)
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
Lol yep #5 should do it haha.
And yeah the blow plate was driving me crazy. Happy to know you can just ignore that situation haha. Also I know I know the draw plate is where it's really at but this is just my OCD kicking in and going " No! everything must be perfect !!". I'll give it a cookie and put a movie on so it can chill overthere while I work.
I don't know where my brain pulled that 444Hz from but thanks for clearing that up!
Got 4 combs from J.A harmonica that came in the mail todday and boiii those are very nice looking. I can't wait till this weekend to start straping these tough guys onto the harps I ordered them for!
Thanks again,
Chris
Cool. Send us photos of the new combs before you install them. Thanks
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
Here you go ;P
from top to bottom is 2 marine band, a manji and a seydel.
I have to mess around with the manji still because it has so many screws and I can't get the perfect alignment that I want.
The two marinebands and the seydel are absolutely excellent with these combs !!
P.S: you'll note that the two screws that are normally in the comb on the seydel are now are the extremities
here are the pictures :
https://imgur.com/xSfiQru
https://imgur.com/xSfiQru
Super cool. Is the comb material Corian? Are those stainless steel or aluminum bushings?
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
I wouldn't know how to identify Corian and I didn't ask. It does feel like a softer material. Like the opposite of brittle.
The 'Bushings' are actually resonators, they come up flush with the comb so they make contact with the reedplate. They appear to be brass but it's kinda hard to tell.
On the marineband they mostly feel like a straight comb would if I compare with other combs I have but for the seydel you certainly feel like less air is required to play. And overblow 4-5-6 are now suddenly available on the seydel. (zero reed work from my part but it was a lightning so it was very excellent out of the box)
Wonderful progress... Peterson chromatic tuner on the way and a Masterharp tuning table on order. Perfect!
Most techs find setting and keeping the Chromatic Tuner to 442Hz will be the best overall setting.
With exception of the 4 and 5 reeds, I regularly find reeds going Sharp, not Flat--so I would not make it any sharper than necessary. Remember, the whole point to our obsessive tuning methods is that by the time you re-assemble your harmonica, make it up to the bandstand, add your smokin' hot Sriracha Sauce, your harmonicas will actually play closer to 440Hz, which by no coincidence, will match the rest of the band.
Your Harpsmith, Kinya