Tedious bending: what are possible reasons for blocked airflow?
I'm out of ideas for "exploring" bending. I can achieve a bit more than 1/4 tone pitch change, but with great tension.
I try to only move my tongue (and the jaw dropping size). But either it does nothing, or it bends while at the same time blocking the airflow. If I insist and "suck" more, my cheeks becoming hollow, the bend is there. This can't be the right starting point, but I can't get out of it.
Suddenly I had the idea to try puckering (I began with this site so I'm 100% tongue-blocking). With puckering, bending was much easier to experiment with. There were pitch changes that could guide me, even the reed stalling noise was helpful. The different bending positions for different holes became clear. I think I could learn to stabilize bending the puckering way, all because the audible feedback is so helpful.
And sometimes, indeed, an impeded airflow, too. With my tongue-blocking tries, it was always!
There must be some flaw that blocks airflow, and that is systematically here when I try to keep the tongue contact with the harmonica.
Do you know what it could be?
Is it useful to keep on experimenting with puckering and stabilize a bit of tongue control? Will it be "transferable" to tongue-blocking, somehow?
You're able to get a continuous bending, from 0 to 1/2 tone, or from 0 to 1 tone 1/2 for the deepest. So there should be many intermediate positions that get a good-sounding bend. I hoped to find one, even very shallow, from which I could explore deeper. This is the frustrating thing: I can't make even a small bend sound good.
I will go on. Maybe it has to do with training tongue muscles, which enables more different tries, with time?
Anyway, "the right part of your tongue, in the right part of your mouth" is a good point because it gives two dimensions where I was expecting one (just where to hump the tongue in the mouth). I will work on that.
Thanks for you detailed answers as always.
My pleasure ÉricD. You're correct, there are "many intermediate positions." There is definitely training of tongue muscles, but not so much on the "muscle" side, but more awareness of what the tongue is doing. Keep at it, you will get it with continued experimentation.
You were right, it's improving! One reason was this: I have tried the chromatic, and the 1 draw is so hard that I really experimented with dropping my jaw and relaxing my jaw. It didn't really fix the 1 draw, I am still working on that, but as a side-effect it really improved my 2 draw on the A diatonic! And from this position I could succeed in a not-forced 2 draw half-step bend (only successful bend so far, and I'm not totally aware of how my tongue does it).
Now I am taking this as a reference and trying to extend it either to neighbouring holes or deeper bend.
For the deeper bend, I now wonder how it relates to the shallower one:
- Is the 1/2-step bend one tongue position (say Kee-like) and the full step another one (say Koo-like), and when going continuously through them, you first aim for the first one, and then proceed to move you tongue hump backwards, like the Shh-Kee-Koo exercice?
- Or do you aim directly for the deeper position, and the intermediate (like the 1/2 step bend) are just "in the path". This seems a simpler explanation.
In other words:
- Is you ability to move continuously over the bending range a special control that you have developed but that is not necessary for a beginner, who should learn to "aim for" two different positions (or three for hole 3)?
- Or is it the way to go? Then, being stuck to the 1/2 step bend could mean that this is not the best position, and I should eventually forget it and find the good trajectory that contains all bends in it?
Hello ÉricD.
Though you tried to lower your tongue (in the middle and back) for the 1 draw on the chromatic, I don't think your tongue was actually lowering. I see this almost daily with my private students. They think they're lowering it, but until they confirm in a mirror, they don't see that their tongue is actually doing something totally different than they think (they're actually raising it). It's important to check this in a mirror (without a harmnica in your mouth of course). When you're able to play the 1 draw on the chromatic with a real nice tone, then you know you've trained your tongue.
I want to confirm something...
Are you able to play the 2 draw on the diatonic with good tone, without unintended bending (same with the 1 draw and 3 draw)? Check this with Harp Ninja. Let me know and we'll continue this thread.
I really think I have made progress in keeping my tongue relaxed, because the difficult draws on the diatonic have so much improved. I have A, C, D, G diatonics, and now only the 1 draw on the D one remains a bit duller than the rest.
For the 2 draw on the A diatonic, the tone and pitches seem good (the pitch is even a bit higher than the 3 blow, on a Suzuki bluesmaster). There is still a difference when rising the volume: if trying to play really louder, 1 draw and 3 draw follow, but 2 draw hits a limit.
I work much with a mirror, but I admit I'm never sure of what I really reproduce with the harmonica in mouth.
Trying to actively lower my tongue often lets it raise, indeed. The best I can do is let it take a large "U" shape while pointing forward, but as soon as the tip goes sideways, I lose it. Not a stable thing I can reproduce directly at will, I have to search for it.
Instead I try to juste keep my tongue relaxed and not "try hard" to let it do something. Now, with the mirror I am consistently able to raise (and move sideways) the tip of my tongue without the back moving. But I cannot lower it actively. Also, tongue switching works a couple of times, then my tongue becomes thicker, I cannot sustain it long.
I tried the chromatic by curiosity, but also out of frustration with bending. Only to hit the 1 draw difficulty... there is no cheating! 1 draw was at first bending, now the pitch and tone are good, but there is a delay before the reed responds. The delay is still here when I remove my tongue and draw 1 and 2 together (2 responds at once, 1 later), so it's not only due to keeping tongue contact. Also, the delay is gone as soon as I open my nose. This 1 draw is my new challenge (and I suppose the diatonic will continue to benefit from it).
Now about bending: you answered another forum question and suggested that maybe the tongue was too globally raised instead of only part of it. With that in mind, from my already improved 2 draw base position, and imagining I started lower than my earlier trials, I found a position that bends 1/2 step, not requiring to breathe harder, but with a kind of "blurred" tone and air loss. Tongue position is hard to estimate, but I feel like it is more "in front" than I expected for a 2 draw.
So I wonder if it is a good "reference position" that I should stabilize and from which to explore, or if it may be a dead-end with no future because:
- 1 draw and 3 draw, that are closer, remain mysterious, while 4 draw bend has become easier (but I have not yet found the 1/2 step bend, still around 1/4 step, but less forced).
- It would seem logical that the correct 1/2 step bending position should be within a continuous raising of the tongue leading to a full step bend. And it doesn't seem to fit the position I found. So I asked the question...
Hello ÉricD.
I'm glad to hear that the difficult draws have become easier to play for you.
Avoid loud playing...just keep it soft for now...we can focus on louder dynamics in your L5 studies.
Avoid the "U" shape... we want the top of our tongue (the entire length) to be convex for all actions on the harmonica. For bending, you can see this in the MRI footage (see coronal view picture).
You're on the right track with your 1 draw on the chromatic. Again, avoid loud/hard playing...focus on a soft, musical sound...loud playing is your enemy.
In the last part of your post, it again goes into the realm of your experimenting...it's your mouth, so these mouth/tongue "feelings" of position are part of the exploration. In general, it's smart to start further forward in your mouth than you think you need to be, and then move your constriction point back (by humping your tongue increasingly further back...in the She-Key-Koo movement that I teach) to start the bend, move down in pitch, and then stop at the bottom of its ability to bend.
Hello ÉricD. As frustrating as it can be, bending is a process of discovery. The one thing you can count on is that everyone feels like it takes longer than it should for them to develop proficiency at it.
The advantage that pucker bending has is that your tongue is free from the face of the harmonica to move. For those that have already learned how to pucker bend, they find it helpful as a pitch reference (what the bend should sound like), but I have not found that one would learn how to bend faster with pucker, then moving to tongue blocking (I have found it to take more time).
You're correct that you shouldn't have to suck hard, or use excessive muscle tension...these are signs that you need to further explore tongue position...you're not in the right position yet.
If air is stopping, you're humping your tongue too high.
Keep in mind that you can hump your tongue too far forwarding in your mouth and you get no bend (or slight bend, but poor tone and a lot air). You can hump your tongue too far back in you mouth and get no bend (or slight bend, but poor tone and a lot air). But... if you hump just the right part of your tongue, in the right part of your mouth, for that reed (every reed has a different sweet spot), then you WILLL get the bend.
So... more exploring is in order for you.
Keep at it, you WILL get it, you just don't know when. As you explore, work on other fun material on the site...there's no hurry.