special 20 verus crossover
I feel like I'm committing some kinda crime amost by bringing this up but when replaced my A special 20 with a marine band crossover to try it before buying a full 12 key set. many of the pros seem to play the marine band harps, so I great expectations for the crossover.
while I love the sound and fast reponse, the different cover plate designs seems to leave a sharo edge on the bamboo comb that is not near as comfortable as the special 20 when playing.
I've been experiementing with more and less angle of harp to face, but no matter what I do, I seem to have better luck and more comfort with the special 20
am missing something on technique that makes the marrine band and marine band crossover easier to play?
Monty
so in matter of opinon, if I don't care that much for the overall of the crossover, I'd be wasting money to try the standard marine band as it has same cover plates and a wooden comb as well?
I've had good service out of my special 20s but I was so sure the that two screws on each end versus the a single screw at either end other other harps would make the marine band and crossover more air tight and thus a better harp.
at least now I know that I'm not the only one not caring for the overall of the crossover
and, hey, tys for yoiur response :)
Monty
so in matter of opinon, if I don't care that much for the overall of the crossover, I'd be wasting money to try the standard marine band as it has same cover plates and a wooden comb as well?
I've had good service out of my special 20s but I was so sure the that two screws on each end versus the a single screw at either end other other harps would make the marine band and crossover more air tight and thus a better harp.
at least now I know that I'm not the only one not caring for the overall of the crossover
and, hey, tys for yoiur response :)
Monty
"So in matter of opinon, if I don't care that much for the overall of the crossover, I'd be wasting money to try the standard marine band as it has same cover plates and a wooden comb as well?"
I wouldn't say you'd be wasting your money. I have a drawer somewhere with some other harps I've tried briefly, like the Marine Band, the Suzuki Manji, a Bushman, and a couple of others. I'm glad I tried them.
The Marine Band is a stalwart. You should have one in my opinion, just for the sake of it. For me, the original 1896 is unplayable because of the unsealed comb and the sharp edges on the holes. The Deluxe model fixed some of that with lacquering and easing of the corners. If you're set on the Marine Band harps, and don't like the comb on the Crossover, I'd say the Deluxe might be something to try.
But on the other hand, not everyone throws their money away on stuff they don't use. I'm an expert at that.
Monty, have you tried the Hohner Rocket? If you like the Special 20, you should like the Rocket as well and perhaps even more. It has rounded edges and it's slightly larger. The Rocket Amp version is more similar to the Special 20, because it hasn't open side vents, while the basic model (without the "Amp" in its name) has brighter sound similar to the Marine Band.
I've tried MB Classic, MB Deluxe, MB Crossover, Special 20 and Manji, and I like the Rocket Amp the most.
Marek
hey tys to ya'll who've let me knoiw that not particulafly liking the overalls of the more expensive (thus better?) crossover won't send me into some harp players' abyss.
I'm glad now that I bought just one to try. I've vowed now to learn to play it without making mouth surgery necessary since I've already got it, I need an A harp for my curerent time, here and my wife hates quitters not to mention I don't have jusitifiable funds at momnt to shell out on more harps.
in the recent since this thread I've really focused on much lighter touch and shallower embroucher than in the past and it's helping
thanks again, guys
i went from a marine band to a Manji. While I love the Manji, it just doesn’t work for me. I then saw an offer for SP20 ser in GA&C for $90 total, an excellent price. I’ve been playing these for six months with god success. I’ve essentially learned how to play on the SP20s. Still, I really like the raspiness of the Manji.
Yesterday, I took delivery of a Rocket in A. Very impressed with it. Bending is a bit easier and the holes are a bit wider, both making for better playing. However, the sound is music to my ears. Nice and raspy. Love it.
Don’t know if I’ll get more, tho, as I’ve got a full compliment for now in the SP20s. At LOA3 A&G are required and this I like the Rockets, I can use the SP20S, at least for now.
"I then saw an offer for SP20 ser in GA&C for $90 total, an excellent price."
Wow. When I bought my set of Special 20s ten years ago or so they were $19.95 apiece! Man, they've gone up! I just checked after seeing your post and Sweetwater has them at $48.
Must be using gold reeds...
Yup, haven’t seen them at that price since. The Rockets are great, but I think a bit pricey.
I love everything about it except the size of the holes. To me, they are a bit too large and make tongue blocking more difficult than the SP20. I do like the sound though, so I'm thinking of disassembling a SP20 and flattening the backside of it to increase flow.
Monty if the sharp edge you're talking about is the protruding reedplates you can adjust those. I'm also used to sp20's so when I bought my crossover I was disappointed. So what you can do is take the covers off and loosen all the reedplate bolts and push them back till they're flush with the comb then you tighten one bolt on each side, check the reed plate again if its good tighten them all. It's not going to be the Same as a sp20 but mine is much better since I adjusted it.
Just be careful when you align your plates to keep the reeds centered in the comb slot. you can easily see it's alignment with the rivets of the blow plate (that's the one you see in the hole).
with some adjusting my crossover is now my fav stock harp.
p.s: don't overtighten the reedplate. it's hand tight plus 1/4 turn.
p.p.s: you can use a straight desk to align the reedplate with the comb by holding the comb pushed down before tightening the two first screws.
I just started playing literally and I bought a $12.99 harmonica got home started playing on it and was so bummed, I knew better, you get what you pay for even if it is a Hohner. I went back the next day and decided on the Hohner Special 20, now mind you I don't play, that's why I am here, but I have been in and around the music scene for a couple of decades playing bass but an illness in my hands doesn't allow me to play anymore so I decided what the heck and I grabbed a harp, oh yeah...back to the Special 20...I fell in love with the first note. I bought a D because of a song I want to learn. I will most likely be buying a C and an A in the next few days and they will be Special 20's
Me on May 27th: ”I love everything about it except the size of the holes. To me, they are a bit too large and make tongue blocking more difficult than the SP20. I do like the sound though, so I'm thinking of disassembling a SP20 and flattening the backside of it to increase flow.”
Me Today: Love the Rocket. My only issue previously was the size of the holes. As different as the feel from the SP20, I always gravitated back to the Rocket. Eventually, I just decided to play the Rocket and get used to the larger hole size. I now own five different keys with two A harps, one for home and one for work. Haven’t found a deal on them tho, so I paid full price. Ouch.
I gave the SP20s to my wife so she can experiment with them a bit. For the foreseeable future, just call me Rocketman.
EDIT: Sweetwater Sounds has lowered the price of the Rockets from $60 to $47, in line with the Special 20s. Wow, just after I bought a bunch too. Oh, well.....
Hello All, the Hohner Rocket is my primary gigging diatonic harmonica--a logical evolution to my Special 20 history.
Long time fans of the the Hohner Special 20 know this instrument as the composite comb (ABS) version of the classic Marine Band 1896. The reeds are EXACTLY the same as those found inside the Marine Band Deluxe, Crossover, Thunderbird, Golden Melody, Rocket and Rocket Amp harmonicas.
For the Marine Band series, the outside dimensions of the reed plates are slightly larger to accomondate the "sandwich" style pearwood, or bamboo combs. While the Progressive Series feature a composite "indexed" comb, requiring a smaller reed plate to nest and index into the vacuum formed combs.
Comfort issues aside, the primary distinction between the way these harmonicas are compared to each other--on a sonic level--are the cover plates:
- Vented cover plates will produce an "acoustic" voicing, and provide the player the added benefit of hearing themself play. Think of the vents as "near field" monitors.
- Non-vented cover plates will produce a "muted" voicing. Jazz players often refer to this effect as a browner or smoother sound
Generally speaking, those harmonica players who play into/over a vocal mic prefer the vented cover plates, and on the flip side are those players interested in the BIG FAT electric sound of a bullet mic through a tube amp, will notice that it will take less effort to achieve that goal with non-vented cover plates--there will be no air pressure escaping out the vents!
Speaking as a Dude with smaller hands, not having to wrap my hands around the ends of a vented cover plates to create "that tone", it was natural for me to migrate to the Special 20 when I first started playing.
And finally, opening the folds on the back of the Special 20 will definitely increase the volume of your sound. If your not comfortable with the tools, simply purchase Hohner Rocket or AMP cover plates and swap out with your Special 20.
Your Harpsmith, Kinya
We will see you at the Harp Tech Forum page!
"The Marine Band is a stalwart. You should have one in my opinion, just for the sake of it. For me, the original 1896 is unplayable because of the unsealed comb and the sharp edges on the holes. "
I don't really know why all the older players love those so much. They sound great, but in addition to the problems you listed, they're also crushable and the covers can actually cut you. The s20 uses the exact same reeds, so it can't be all about just sound. If it's open loudness you want, the rocket model handles that. There are other harps that sound just as great or better without all those problems.
I guess it's nostalgia, which is something I CAN understand.
I have a full set of Special 20s, Crossovers, and Seydel 1847 Classics.
I never touch the Crossovers.
I started with the Special 20s. There are an appreciable number of pros that use that harp. I really looked forward to the Crossover when it was released. The first one I got was dead on arrival, so I had the typical early adopter syndrome.
Playing them for a while led me to further disappointment. I didn't like the comb feel at all. It's just too rough for me, especially after playing on the smooth Special 20 comb. I also didn't like the feel of the covers. The stamping made my lips dry out too quickly, so I found I kept getting chapped lips after playing them. The playability of the harps was great. Bending was much easier for me than the Special 20. I liked the bright sound, and the action. But I just couldn't really LIKE them.
I started buying the Seydel 1847 Classics. At first, I didn't much take to them. They're much bigger than the Hohners. I also wasn't really sure about the stainless steel reed plates (and debated Winslow here on this site about them a long time back). But after playing them a bit, I found them really growing on me. The plates were nice and smooth, and the wood comb was much smoother. The holes were larger than the Hohners, too, and I found I liked that. Now, when I grab a Special 20 or a Crossover, I find them way too small for me. The overall tone rivals the dark sound of the Special 20s, and I discovered I didn't like the Crossover's bright twang as much any more.
It's all about what you like. My best advise is to try several different brands and models, then settle on the one that works for you. There really is no "right" answer.