Spare reeds for the XB-40 or other altered tuned diatonics to get chromatic notes
Hi Winslow,
I just joined bluesharmonica.com and have entered an original composition "Chrome on the Bayou" in the Chromatic King Original Blues Chromatic Instrumental Songwriting Contest. I am enjoying listening to all the resource interviews. Great site! Recently I discovered your interviews and thought that you may be a resourceful person to ask your advice.
I am living in Nanaimo on Van Island. Good to connect with a fellow Canuk who is from the wet coast :)
I have played diatonics all my life, but in the last few decades I have been working on the chromatic playing jazz. I have a jazz group THE MARTYS here in Nanaimo. My favorite horns are the CX-12 and G-48. I recently started playing locally with a blues artist (Mark Crissinger). This has been lots of fun as the chromatic harmonica sound playing blues is refreshing to the blues crowd here, as compared to the established harmonica sound in 2nd position on the diatonic. Also forced me to focus on Keys A, G, E, D, on my chrome as these are the favorite keys of blues guys, as apposed to Bb, Eb, Ab playing blues with the jazz guys. F seems to be a key common for blues in both jazz and blues.
But I am also playing my diatonics again, as there are just some things you can't do on the chromatic in blues that you can do on the diatonic (such as Sonny Terry type rhythms).
My main diatonics are a set of Hohner XB-40's that I love, especially on the high end where I can get some very useful chromatic melodic possibilities playing blues. I have a hard time going back to my old standard tuned diatonics. I was playing a gig a few weeks ago, and on a tune playing one of my XB-40's, a reed got stuck. I have some basic repair skill sets, and tools, and can swap out a reed and valves etc. But to swap out a reed I need replacement reeds. This may be a problem as we all know that the XB-40 has been discontinued.
I realize now, that I need to find some solutions to either be able to repair my XB-40's and find a source of reeds, or find another diatonic altered tuning similar to the XB-40.
This is where I would like to seek your advice:
- Is there a source of spare reeds for XB-40's? Hohner? Reeds from other harmonicas that have the same size reeds?
- If there isn't an available source for spare reeds for the XB-40, will Hohner repair the XB-40's, or independant harmonica techs?
- To replace the XB-40, if I look for another diatonic altered tuning to get more chromatic notes, where would I look? There seems to be a lot of development for diatonics, and have been reading about:
- PT Gazell's half valved Richter diatonics from Sydel
- Suzuki's Sub40
- Seydel's PowerBender
- Brendan Power's ExtraBends
Can you give me any advice on if any of the above harmonicas may be a good solution for me to look into if I wish to explore another diatonic altered tuned harmonica that is similar or better than the Hohner XB-40?
Much graditude!
Marty Howe
Hi Marty,
XB40 reeds appear to be wider than Marine Band reeds.
That means you need to go to Hohner and see what they have available. Hohner USA has a parts department. My guess is this is not going to be easy to get a stash of reeds for the XB40. If I were you I would keep looking on Ebay or anywhere you can for XB40 harps or reed plates.
And who knows - maybe you will be able to get some reeds from Hohner...
Once you find some, you can drop pitch on reeds with solder and cut down reeds to fit shorter slots, There are all kind of things you can do if the reed is the right width.
For alternatives, X-Reed Harmonicas (Brendan Power and Zombor Kovaks) have made harps from the Suzuki SUB 30, and also made a series of MB-30 harmonicas - 30 reed harps made from Marine Band reed plates. I worked with them to make a run of 50 of these harps, and they give you a full chromatic palette with bends in all three octaves blow and draw. I play them all the time now and love what I can do with them.... wish I had a full set!
They have some limitations in notes compared to the XB40, cause you are using a triple reed design. But they have that fat nasty raspy blues harp tone and are small so you can work them with your hands...
And you can get reeds for them from the 100+ years of Hohner diatonics and newest harps that have the same dimensions of the Marine Band.
At some point Brendan & Zombor will bring this harp back to the marketplace. The initial run was a LOT of work, and the harps were expensive - the ones I built were in the $400 range.
So simplifying the design and finding a way to make it at least a bit less expensive are the goals on the MB30 for X-Reed harps...
Best of luck in your adventures!
Richard Sleigh
My understanding is that Hohner has a repertoire of standard reeds that appear in different harmonicas. While you can't get full reedplates for XB-40s anymore, you might be able to get reeds in the appropriate sizes and pitches if my hunch is correct and the reeds used are standard to some other models as well (Marine Band is far from the only standard set of Hohner reed sizes).
As far as replacing the XB with another model, the Suzuki Sub30 and X-reed harmonicas come closest as they use the same principle. However, these are 30-reed harps and don't have either the flexibility or the volume of the XB. I'm not impressed with the stock SUB30, but I am impressed with teh X-reed harps, especially the ones that Richard has set up. But they take a lot of work to set up and are rather expensive as a result.
I got curious and called Hohner - no individual reeds available for the XB40, but you can order reed plate sets for $145.
I'll report more as I can...
Thanks, Richard. TRhe opposite of what I thought, and an expensive option. I bought my XBs new for about $70 a pop in the early 2000s. But then, coffee used to cost a dime . . .
Thank you Richard and Winslow!
Marty
Thank you Richard,
Yes I have been looking at all of X-Reed Harmonicas offerings and I remember reading about your contribution. Looking forward to seeing the price come down. Problem with finding a diatonic that you like....you want them in all the common blues keys.... it gets pricey.
Also thanks for looking into the Hohner XB-40 plates for $145. Like Winslow I paid around $70 each for the whole harp. I wonder maybe some of the European Hohner sources may have better luck with getting XB-40 reeds.
Thanks for your contribution for advancing the harmonica!
Marty
Hi Richard,
I checked out the page X-Reed about the X-Reed MB30-S http://x-reed.com/products.php#view7
Those must be some very fine harps!!!
Any ETA on the price coming down?
I do have a Suzuki sub-30 that I am not that impressed with (I little stiff for me). I see I can send it in to Brendon for upgrading to the new comb and embossing etc (X-Reed SUB30 UltraBend). I am assuming that will make a big difference from the basic sub-30?
How big a difference between the upgradeded X-Reed SUB30 UltraBend, and the ExtraBend and MB-30, MB30s?
Thanks for your innovations and dedication to making quality harps!
Marty
Hi Winslow,
I hunted around the web and found a used XB-40 in A for $65 plus ship, so I pounced on it.
If you were abandoned on a desert Island with a blues band, and could only take one of two harps, would it be an XB-40 or a upgraded sub-30?
:)
Marty
Hi, Y'all....
Rick Epping got back to me with the following information on XB40 reeds (Thank you, Rick!):
The XB-40 uses Knittlinger reeds, which came to Hohner in 1906 when it bought out the Hotz factory in Knittlingen. Hohner originally used this type of reed in the Auto Valve, Marine Band Full Concert, Marine Bands 364 and 365, and in the Little Lady. They're the same as Hohner formerly used on their chromatics except that the narrower, 1.9 mm wide reeds begin at a couple of positions longer them than on the old chromatic reeds. I chose Knittlinger reeds for the XB-40 because of their superior high-end response and because of this, Hohner also decided to use them for their chromatics. So pretty much all the reeds you might need for XB-40s are still in production for the various keys of 270 Super Chromonicas. The problem is figuring out which reed is which.
I order my reeds online from the factory through this web page: http://www.hohner-cshop.de/en/Downloads/
The German website says that U.S. and Canadian customers must order exclusively through the U.S. website, but it seems that 270 reeds are also available there: http://www.hohner-cshop.us/ Click on Harmonica Reed Identifier and then on M270 Chromatic Reeds. If you can match up the reed sizes and pitches for XB-40s with those of the 270 then you're flying.
I have some reeds I bought for the Auto Valve which came in packets labeled for chromatics, including a bin number, or "Fach" number. This Fach number comes up in the shopping cart when you order reeds online for the 270. I wish I had a conversion table for 270 reeds to Auto Valve and XB-40 reeds. I wish the factory had such a conversion table, but I've been told that Auto Valve reeds are not in their data files, so I doubt that XB-40 reeds are either. At least it's good to know that they're out there...
MB30 update:
Brendan and Zombor are still working through mulitlple layers of issues with design changes and getting parts made. I am confident that they will find a way to re-introduce the MB30 and when they do, they will be putting the word out for sure - and i will most likely be banging the gong to get the word out too... I have been keeping in touch with them & Brendan has been gigging a lot, Zombor has a job now doing some really complicated design and production work for a company that makes auto parts. He is getting a great on the job education on how to design and make things with modern production facilities, so I am jazzed about what transferrable skills and knowledge he will be bringing to the harmonica table in the months to come....
I have been playing my MB30S harps at gigs (keys of A & C) for months now and beating the crap out of them, so far replaced only one reed. I've had some issues with valves sticking, but no show stoppers - i just have to check and warm up the harp & pop a valve or two with extra pressure then I am good to go.
Marty - On a desert island, i would probably go with the XB40 - I am now too spoiled with the MB30 and if that was out of the question, the XB40 allows you to explore all sorts of music. Desert island with blues bar - SUB30 (unless i get to have MB30)
and i would have to have tools and reeds to keep the harp in repair
between the XB and the 30-reed harps, I'd have to go with the XB for the desert island.
Great to know that the reed sizes exist. Richard, I may confer with you a bit more about how to identify them.
Richard, this news is reaally comforting! I'ld like to be on the loop with this too. As we know our favorite toys need not only TLC but spare parts. I'm slowly building up my skill sets and tools to keep my harps singing!
Much thanks for your research in this.
Re: MB30 - I meet a fellow harp player here on bluesharmonica.com that lives reasonably close by, and has a MB30. He said he would bring his along when he shows up at our local blues jam, so imay get a chance to play it, r at least hear what it can do.
Thanks again.
Thank you for sharing this Winslow.
I read a post of yours on some other harp forum where you shared your insights regarding the history of the XB-40. It was very insightful, and you brought out many salient points regarding the reasons the XB-40 did not catch on in a big way, such as: form factor - bigger sized harp than traditional blues harps, required sensitivity and finess in achieving stable bends, and unique tone - more like a chromatic.
While these reasons are very valid for many (maybe most) blues harp players, i personally find these attributes appealing. I also love the loud sound!
The ability to cup the smaller traditional harps, and create the whaw effect, is one thing i certainly miss on the XB-40s.
Much appreciate your wealth of knowledge on the xb-40 and harmonicas in general :)
Hi everyon,
i'm looking out for a technical drawing or something that's comming close on how the XB40 is assembled.
can anyone help me out please.
greatings,
henk.
Hi, Henk.
If you're trying to disassemble or reassemble an XB-40, I don't know of any drawings. All I know is from my own experience.
The reedplate/comb screws are in two different lengths, with the longer ones inserted into the back of the harp, where the wedge-shaped comb is thicker.
The comb is in two parts, top and bottom, while there is also, of course, the mouthpiece.
The trick in reassembly is to get the top and bottom parts in alignment with each other and in alignment with the mouthpiece. Also, the reedplates must not overlap the ledge that runs along the front edges of the comb halves. The front edges of the reedplates must be placed against those ledges and not on top of them.
I hope this helps. This is from memory, several years after the last time I serviced my XB-40s.
Hi Winslow.
Sorry the formating os not working in the above post. I formated it with paragraphs making it easier to read using regular HTML formatting but obviously something is not working.
OK - I just retyped everything and it is working now. :) :)