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Forums :: Ask Harp Tech Expert Kinya Pollard

Sjoeberg tuning table

9 replies [Last post]
Wed, 07/08/2020 - 11:24
R3Dz
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Dear Kinya,

 

I saw a video you made a while back about the Sjoeberg tuning table so I assume you own one ?

I wanted to ask you for a "I've had this for a while and here's what I think" type review. 

I guess my main question is how good can you get the tuning done on the table ? Do you often have to re-adjust once back on the harp ? Do you still use it or did the novelty wear off and you're back to tuning straight on the harp ?

 

I'm considering buying one, they seem like a lot of fun to use.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

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Thu, 07/09/2020 - 12:10
#1
Harp Tech Kinya...
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Hi Chris, most definitely I

Hi Chris, most definitely I still use both of my HarpTuners (one in San Jose, and the other table in Monterery). The first one I bought was from Dick Sjoberg (serial #002). The second one was from the new owner of MasterHarp, John Ingam. For many users, the most difficult part was to master the process:

  1. Decide in advance the voicing you want to hear from the harmonica. This is accomplished by choosing a Temperament, such as Equal (Melodies), Compromised (Rock Blues Jazz) or Just (Acoustic Blues)
  2. Locate the Temperament "receipe" that make up the voicing you chose
  3. Perfectly tune your "reference" reeds against a Chromatic Tuner that will display Cents [b/#]. Lower or Raise the pitch of the reed until the needle/display agrees with the receipe, e.g. 4Blow = +1 cent  TIP: Don't forget to first calibrate your Chromatic Tuner to 442Hz. 
  4. Relative to the C harmonica, your reference pitch (notes) on the Blow side will be your first octave notes #2E and #3G. On the Draw side, #2G and #3B. Your second octave reference notes will be #4C on the Blow side and #4D on the Draw side
  5. TIP: because the Sjoberg Tuner is based on a vaccuum table principle, all tuning is done "drawing" (sucking) on the hose. Yes-even the Blow notes. The key is to suck "convincingly" (especially with the octaves). 
  6. Once you have tuned the reed to match your temperament receipe--don't stop, rather continue tuning the same reed towards the "outter edge". So what this will look like on the Chromatic Tuner: #4C = +1c, +3c, +5c... then go back down +5c, +3c, and land back at the desired +1c. This is similar to tuning a string instrument, where you would twist the peg a little bit more in both directions to stretch/relax the strings until you land on the desired pitch. It tends to stretch then settle the pitch into it's new configuration
  7. For the rest of the reeds--besides terrific ear training--you will use your set of reference reeds to tune the next octave up (or down). The mission is to vibrate two reeds of the same pitch; for example, 3G Blow and 6G Blow, in different octaves and not hear the note "beat". Meaning, if your 2nd reed (i.e. 6G Blow) does not match-exactly-your reference reed (#3G Blow), you will hear an obvious beating of that note--almost as if you switched on the Tremolo feature from your amplifier. TIP: refer to your Chromatic Tuner display to see if your second reed is Flat (b) or Sharp (#)
  8. Repeat the process for all reeds. TIP: Draw reed #2G does not have an octave, so just tune the #5F draw to match number of cents shown on the receipe.

Due to the nuances created by mating the reed plates back onto the comb and securing the cover plates, I always do a final tuning by playing the instrument, then let is sit quietly for a minum of three days, play it once more, tweak as needed, sanitize the instrument, then release the harmonica to the customer.

If you enjoy working on your harmonicas, particulary if you like to experiment with various tunings, such as; Paddy, Natural Minor, etc., then the HarpTuner would be an excellent investment.

Your Harpsmith, Kinya

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Mon, 08/03/2020 - 07:08
#2
R3Dz
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Haha wow I forgot to reply to

Haha wow I forgot to reply to this thread. 

 

Thanks for the review Kinya. That sums up exactly what I wanted to know. I'm not super keen on altered tunings but I've noticed every single harp I have has beating octaves and I wanted to puts around with tuning and good tools make for fun working environement ;P. I just wanted to make sure this tuning table wasn't a gimmick more than an actual proper working tool haha. 

 

I've also been wondering if it's possible to tune the beat out of the 2-5 draw octave ( yes I can bend the left and leave the right natural ;P)

 

Again I'm using my 'learning harp' to do all this stuff so no danger ;P 

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Mon, 08/03/2020 - 11:29
#3
Harp Tech Kinya...
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Hi R3Dz, the 2/5 combination

Hi R3Dz, the 2/5 combination is not an Octave, because it only has two notes (and not 3 or more) this awesome sounding 2/5 combination is actually known as a "Partial" Chord. The Harp Tuner is very useful for smoothing out the 2/5 combo.  

Your Harpsmith, Kinya

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Wed, 08/05/2020 - 09:49
#4
R3Dz
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Hmm I'm not sure what you

Hmm I'm not sure what you mean by 3 notes or more but what I'm talking about is how on a G harp for example 5 draw is a C but 2 draw is a D.

However if you bend 2 draw 2 steps down you will get a C which matches the 5draw for an octave. 

 

The trouble is getting the two tones exactly right to minimize the 'beating' effects and I've been playing around with a tuner to see where my bend is when I practice and where it needs to be to match the 5 draw's C and I've noticed that trying to move a bend by 5-10 cents only is very difficult (especially when done on the left while drawing on the right hahaha). 

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Sun, 08/09/2020 - 11:47
#5
Harp Tech Kinya...
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Ah so, I think I understand

Ah so, I think I understand now Chris, you wanted to know how to smooth out the beats when playing that two hole 2/5 combination.

In your example, 2draw=D and 5draw=C played simultaneously will create a dissonant voicing. This is a wonderful and popular thing to do for the blues player. When I need to create tension in a phrase, I luv to incorporate that 2/5 combination.

There are many factors that get in the way of smoothing out the 2/5 combination during play, e.g.

  • The relationship between the two notes will vary depending on the intonation (pitch accuracy) of the harmonica reeds.
  • When measuring intonation with your Chromatic Tuner, you will notice a 12-Tone Equal Temperament Tuned (12TET) harmonica (e.g. Hohner Golden Melody, Tombo/Lee Oskar) will give you notes that are pretty darn close to 0 cents (cents=intervals), causing extreme beating when playing partial (2 notes) and full (3 or more notes) chords.
  • On the other end of the spectrum, a Just Intonation Tuned harmonica will display notes that are significantly different in their intonation. For example, a Just Intonation tuned harmonica reeds will register on your chromatic tuner; 2draw= sharp+1 cents and 5draw= flat≥-28 cents. There will be less beating when playing full or partial chords with Just Intonation Tuned harmonicas

Chris, I hope I did not pull a SNL Rosanna-Dana and go off on the wrong tangent.

Your Harpsmith, Kinya

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Sun, 08/09/2020 - 11:15
#6
R3Dz
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hahaha no I mean I know about

hahaha no I mean I know about the dissonant relationship between 2 and 5 draw which is like you said a D and a C but D can bend 2 half steps to a C.

So if you do that you've got 2 C's playing hence an octave.

But when you bend 2 draw you can sorta go lower than a C. (on my tuner with my key of A. 2 Draw starts at E and then bends down to D# and then to D but I can floor it down to D -40 cents).

So my idea is to see if I can get those two C's to lose the beat.

It hit me that having something to listen to might actually help so here is an audio recording of both situations. The dissonant 2/5 and the octave 2/5.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18PjoGmVF6RtfzGtcraVSi-RSCPhpez_j/view?u...

So towards the end there you can hear I get them pretty close to each other and the beating is minimized.

I hope this makes more sense hahaha.

 

Chris

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Sun, 08/09/2020 - 12:21
#7
Harp Tech Kinya...
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Got it Chris. Thank you for

Got it Chris. Thank you for the sound clip.

I've heard a handful of players use this as an effect. For me, this proved to be a clumbsy technique to deploy in a musical way. Instead, I use (maybe too much) the 3Blow and 6Blow Octave.

Well one thing is for certain, there is so much discovery and mastery to do on this little tin sandwhich--and so little time! Thanx again Chris

Your Harpsmith, Kinya

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Mon, 08/10/2020 - 10:09
#8
R3Dz
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Oh yeah def lots to learn

Oh yeah def lots to learn with the harp. Just look at Moses concas and how he plays it! funny enough I can do the octave trick and I can overblow but I struggle with 8-9-10 blow bends ... go figure. 

 

On a side note, my test harp is gapped on 1-2-3-4-5-6 now and man does it play nicely (sounds like nothing but there's at least 16 hours of work in there) . Reshaping the reeds was a good call. The gapping hardly changed but just reshaping them made it into a wow instrument ! I need to have a sitdown and do 7-8-9-10 and see if that will help me get my blow bends -_- ... I know I should get them on a stock instrument but I just can't manage it lmao.

Soon as I'm done with gapping I'll try tuning it.. still debating if I should go prewar with the tuning ... I suppose my worry is whether or not I'll be able to use it on the same songs I use a standard marine band ... I'll go over this question with David this week. 

 

Also side question: when I was gapping my hand slipped and I bent a reed almost full 90 degrees. I thought for sure the reed was a gonner but I managed to straighten it out and put it right again. It plicks the way it should and it plays nicely but should I still look at changing it given it could be weakened now that it's had a serious bend at the rivet end ??

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Mon, 08/10/2020 - 19:58
#9
Harp Tech Kinya...
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Nah, don't bother Chris. If

Nah, don't bother Chris. If it's in tune leave it alone for now, but be mindful of checking it from time to time.

Your Harpsmith, Kinya

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