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Forums :: Ask Harp Tech Expert Kinya Pollard

Sjoeberg Table Quirks

5 replies [Last post]
Fri, 02/26/2021 - 13:18
WoozleEffect
WoozleEffect's picture
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Joined: 02/10/2021

Good afternoon!

I have some questions for Kinya about the Sjoeberg tuning table. I acquired a master table back at the beginning of our lockdown in Canada, and I've been spending a fair bit of time tinkering with it and getting the hang of how it works.

I'm blanking out the "master" section on the back for now, as I am only occasionally cloning one of my better harmonicas over to a new one.

What I've noticed is that activating reeds on the drawplate with a draw, results in a note that is pretty darn close to how the note sounds when the harmonica is reassembled. However, activating reeds on the blow plate with a draw, as the table does, tends to result in a note that is as much as 15 cents sharper than the note will sound when reassembled. The end result is that my blow notes all end up flat when reassembled.I've created a spreadsheet that I use to calculate my "blow offset". So while I might tune the draw plate to A4=443, the blow plate will get tuned to something like A4=405.05 so that the two plates end up sounding in tune.

However, I've also noticed that this effect, across both plates, is amplified as you move up from the low reeds to the high reeds. It appears to be somewhat logarithmic.

So on any one plate, if I tune all the reeds nice and evenly to a tenth of a cent, when I reassemble, the reeds will start in tune and become progressively flatter as I move up the harmonica. (From low to high on the draw, and from high to low on the blow plates)

I'm thinking this has something with the size of the air cavity inside the Sjoeberg, and the distance between the air intake (on the far left of the table), and the notes being tuned on the far right.

I've seen some comments about using the "black valves" to simulate nasal breathing and smoothing things out, but the model of table that I have does not have that feature. It only has 10 valves. I'm considering testing out a new blanking plate with a tiny "air hole" drilled for each hole, just to let that tiny bit of backpressure out... not sure what effect that might have. I have also contemplated attaching a regular old reedplate onto the "master" side of the table that has all the holes taped over except for a tiny hole that I can adjust...

I really like the table, and it definitely has the potential to speed up my workflow. But having to make mathematical adjustments to each hole takes time, even if my software tuner can be programmed to account for those percentages automatically. It also means that I can't "trust my ears" when I hear a nice clean chord with no beating on the tuning table. Because once it's off the table, those notes shift relative to one another, and I end up having to touch them up again manually on the comb.

In any case, any thoughts or feedback you might have on this process would be greatly appreciated. I would be DELIGHTED to discover that I'm just doing something wrong, and this can be fixed by correcting my technique. I'm still relatively new at this, so I feel there's a 90% chance that this can be chalked up to "operator error". :)

Cheers!

 

Rob Laferriere

Russell, MB, Canada

 

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Sat, 02/27/2021 - 19:47
#1
Harp Tech Kinya...
Harp Tech Kinya Pollard's picture
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Joined: 02/07/2010
Hey Rob, thank you for

Hey Rob, thank you for joining us!

Before I respond, I need to know; are you using the breathing tube or bellows?

Your Harpsmith, Kinya

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Sun, 02/28/2021 - 14:27
#2
WoozleEffect
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Joined: 02/10/2021
For sure, I mostly use the

For sure, I mostly use the breathing tube at the moment.I have hooked up a bellows with an air-flow regulartor. I'm finding that the bellows egsagerates the issue I'm seeing somewhat, but that it's also difficult on my regulator to switch between the requisite minimum airflow to activate a single reed, as opposed to activating two or more in a chord. I may need some advise as to how to better set up my bellows so that this it works better.

Is the length of tubing a factor in some way? Or perhaps the location in the tubing where it converts from the regulator to the size necessary to fit the table?

I am VERY open to my tuning inconsistencies being an issue of "operator error" on my part, and that I need to correct something about my technique or methods in order to correct it. Maybe I'm just not understanding some (or many) aspects of how and when I'm taking my tuning measurements.

Thanks for your help!

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Mon, 03/01/2021 - 20:48
#3
Harp Tech Kinya...
Harp Tech Kinya Pollard's picture
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Joined: 02/07/2010
Hello Rob, I thought it best

Hello Rob, I thought it best that we bring in the owner and builder of your tuning table, John Ingham to respond to your challenges. John wrote:

Some time after taking the full reins of Masterharp I came to know that a tuning table offers more consistent and precise results than are otherwise possible. Generally those results need to be adjusted to obtain the desired result. That can be done with the reed plate on the comb or on the table.

On the table two things need to be remembered (beyond the basics of reed setting and or material condition of the reeds and plate): 

  1. Consistent results are only possible with consistent airflow which can only be generated and regulated by a metered valved bellows system. 

  2. Those results are likely to need adjustment.

So, in a nutshell Rob is correct.

With both the single and double table, mileage varies depending on how determined you are to clone a tuning precisely. Again, consistent airflow control is crucial, consideration of cent / Hz compensation is crucial. All that said, in competent and determined hands a table can and does speed the process of tuning as Rob alludes. Beyond that I'll add that diatonic harmonica customization and repair is a super technical and complicated equation. Toss in personal tone preference, embouchure and the laws of physics and you've got a very complicated equation. It is my belief that consistent results are possible with effort. A tuning table is a good investment as long as one is aware of the myriad factors involved.

Thank you Rob, this case was a real brain teaser for me!

Your Harpsmith, Kinya

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Tue, 03/02/2021 - 10:51
#4
WoozleEffect
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Joined: 02/10/2021
Thank you so much Kinya, and

Thank you so much Kinya, and John!This mysterious table has already sped up my workflow a great deal. I'm going to have to put some additional thought into my bellows system and see if I can find a more consistent way of regulating the airflow.

I've been using a spreadsheet to track my results from each tuning and compare the measurements of the reeds both on the comb and on the table, before and after tuning. This has allowed me to make tiny adjustments to the "offset" that I use between the blow and the draw plates in order to ensure that the final tuning is as near perfect as possible.

In the end, when I put the harmonica together, and only need to adjust one or two reeds by a cent or less to dial in the finished product, I'm very happy with that. It's a substantial saving in time and energy.

I'm really enjoying all that I've learned on the table so far. It's been a great experience!

Cheers,

-Rob

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Wed, 03/03/2021 - 18:08
#5
Harp Tech Kinya...
Harp Tech Kinya Pollard's picture
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Joined: 02/07/2010
AWESOME! Your Harpsmith,

AWESOME!

Your Harpsmith, Kinya

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