Raising or Arching Tongue While Tongue Is Underneath Harmonica
I am working on bending notes.
What is a good drill with or without the harmonica that will help me raise the tongue while keeping the tongue underneath the Harmonica.
I can control the tongue with tongue blocking okay, but bringing back in on itself in a hump and withdrawing it at all is hard for me to do while I am tongue blocking.
I am learning the Harmonica using the tongue blocking technique. In that technique my tip of the tongue is underneath the Harmonica as Dave instructed.
I have the Harmonica in my mouth, not just my lips and have it angled down a little.
I am supposed to drop the jaw a little and put the tip of my tongue against my front bottom teeth. Then I should try to push the tip of my tongue against my teeth to arch my tongue towards the roof of my mouth and say the vowels backward.
How can I do this if my tongue is underneath the Harmonica?
I am getting close to my first bend. I am struggling with the different ways to do this e.g. using vowels KA, Or KEE KOO etc.
I find myself simply just voicing the vowels and get nowhere.
I know it is in the tongue and throat. Is your technique not tongue blocking or is it lip blocking (puckering)?
I am supposed to stay away from the pucker. It is a little confusing
Thank You!
Will
Will -
First, let me apologize for the delay in responding. For some reason this query didn't show up for me until today, even though I check the site daily.
Tommy's point that this stuff is personal to everyone is a good one. Everyone's anatomy is slightly different, and you do have to find ways to adapt your tongue, oral cavity, etc., to get a desired result.
GETTING A TONGUE BLOCK
Case in point: The tip of your tongue can be behind the front teeth, or it can rest on your lower lip, with the edge of the bottom cover of the harmonica resting on the tip of your tongue. Either way, that gives you an anchor point to press the top surface of your tongue against the holes to achieve a single note or chord out of one corner of your mouth, or a split out of both sides.
BENDING AND THE "K" SOUND
As to getting a bend with syllables such as Ka, Koo, etc.: The syllables are an important starting point but you need to do more with them beyond saying them.
The action of making the sound of "K" is key to successful bending. Slowing down and focusing on that sound will unlock bending, so let's make a tour of that sound.
Try this:
Start to say "Kaa." But let's slow it waaay down. Raise your tongue to the roof of your mouth to block the airflow. Start to exhale, but keep the passage blocked so that no air can escape.
Notice how pressure builds up as you try to exhale.
Now, lower your tongue by a *tiny* amount, and pay attention to two things:
1. You'll hear air rushing through the narrow passage you've created.
2. You'll still experience air pressure as all that air tries to crowd through that tiny space. It will feel as if it's trying to push your tongue away from the roof of your mouth.
This place of partial opening that obstructs the air flow is something I call the "K-spot" because the obvious place to do it is where you'd normally say "K."
Now, set up a K-spot again and try exhaling through it. Listen to the sound of air rushing.
Then, try sliding the K-spot forward a little on the roof of your mouth and listen to the change in the sound. Now slide it backwards, again listening to the sound. (also, notice how the sensation of pressure moves with the K-spot.)
When you slide the K-spot forward, you should notice that the pitch of the rushing air goes up. When you slide it back, the pitch goes down.
When you move the K-spot forward, you're making the space between the K-spot and your lips smaller. A smaller space produces a higher-pitched sound. When you move the K-spot back, the space gets bigger and creates a lower-pitched sound.
Now, try setting up a K-spot while inhaling.
Start a K sound by raising your tongue to the roof of your mouth to block air flow and start to inhale. No air can move, and you'll notice that your ribs and throat are being sucked inward as if to collapse. Now lower your tongue *slightly* to create a narrow air passage. Air starts to rush in, and you'll feel suction trying to pull your tongue up to the roof of your mouth and close of the passage.
Listen to the sound of air rushing. Now try sliding the K-spot forward and back in your mouth. The point of suction will move with the K-spot, while the pitch of the rushing sound will go up as you move it forward and down when you move it back in your mouth.
So getting the K-spot going is the key to activating a bend. Moving it forward or backward is the key to tuning the bend to the bending range of the note you're playing. Feeling the pressure while exhaling or the suction while inhaling is the "dashboard light" that tells you that the bending system is engaged.
How tongue blocking and bending interact is another long description, so let me stop here and get you trying this stuff out:
--- Try forming a K-spot and moving it forward and backward while both inhaling and exhaling. See how far you can move it and still keep the narrow passage that produces both the rushing air sound and the sensation of either pressure or suction.
Hope this helps.
Winslow
Winslow, no apologies required. All of you guys are great! I am on your wondefull response now! This is a very detailed but easily digested response. It is like a gourmet meal for a young baby.
I will give you another response after I digest your awesome reply.
Greatly appreciated
Will
Winslow, I am not introducing the Harmonica until I work on what you have told me. One question so far.
Once I have the tongue initially placed in my mouth and I START the Kaa sound, and I raise the tongue to the roof of my mouth, do I try to keep the tongue tip or front of the tongue stationary?
I am doing this real slow, which is a great key, and I am in the START phase of the Kaa sound and I am not just running into the Kaa sound. I am starting it and then I am not sure if I concentrate on the raising without not being concerned about the tongue moving back.
In another way, does my tongue move at all backward doing the great exercise, or if done properly it will stay in place to then create the hump by the physical movement of the tongue going back and forward inside my mouth?
This is a diamond for beginning Harmonica players to start the bending of notes. If I can do it, everybody can!
Cheers!
Will
Will -
When you bend, the activation work is done by the place on your tongue where you narrow the airflow. If that's at the "K" spot, then the rest of your tongue does not need to rise.
Typically with pucker bending the front of the tongue is pointed down, but this isn't essential; it's just a byproduct.
When you bend while tongue blocking, the tip of your tongue is engaged in blocking holes on the harmonica (whether directly on the holes or, as I and Dave both recommend, under or just in front of the mouthpiece).
Moving the tongue backwards is a separate part fo bending from raising your tongue to constrict the airflow.
Bending has two components:
Activation (narrowing the airflow by raising the tongue)
Sizing (where you place the constriction)
By placing the constriction farther back, you tune your mouth to a lpwernote, while moving it forward tunes your mouth to a higher note.
Sliding the K-spot changes the tuning of your mouth while the bend is engaged, and thus can cause a bent note to slide up dow down in pitch.
To go directly to a bent note without sliding, you just raise your tongue to activate the bend at the desired pitch.
To get the "kaa" sound to occur, I find that I can do it without needing to mive my tongue forward or back. I simply raise it.
Does this help?
Winslow thank you first of all.
You have cleared up why I was confused about initially having the tongue behind the bottom teeth or under the mouthpiece. I am using the under the harmonica method not the bottom teeth.
I then get the K spot which is the (location) and then work on sounds. I believe that I was concentrating on vowel sounds versus the location (the K spot).
The different sounds, Shee - Kee - Koo would follow after getting the location or K Spot.
I can tongue block great. I use the Bendometer and I am spot on in this area. I now have to keep the tongue right there and find my K spot (location) and then work on the different sounds.
Is this correct?
Thank you so much in this personal interest in my bending.
Will
The different sounds are byproducts of tongue placement or tongue movement.
For instance, if you get a "Khee" sound with one tongue placement (i.e., location of the K-spot or constriction point), and then slide the K-spot back in your mouth, the sound will change to "Khoo".
When you bend while tongue blocking, you have less range of motion along the back-to-front axis than you do when puckering. To compensate, you can raise or lower the portion of your tongue between the K-spot and the tongue block. This effectively makes the chamber smaller for high notes or larger for low notes.
For instance, to bend high notes you can raise this portion of your tongue up toward the roof of your mouth.
To bend low notes, you can lower the tongue (and possibly the jaw) to make the cavity larger.
When I do this, the vowel change I hear, both with and without the harp, is "Eh-Oh."
Success on all notes on A harmonica.
This is what did it. I believe I might not be doing things in a text book manner, but you have gotten me bending.
I had to use my video cam that is in my Windows Movie Maker software to find out what is going wrong in my mouth. It could feel real good but be real wrong.
Here are my adjustments.
HOLDING THE HARMONICA - THUMBS UP BLOCKING RIGHT TWO HOLES
I wanted more consistency in my holding of the Harmonica so I switched to both thumbs up and blocking the right most holes with my right thumb. Thank you David and Joe!
I could then have the Harmonica's back end up a little and have the Harmonica a little deeper in my mouth, which then allowed me to create, (normally) a more rounded tongue that made it easier for the tongue to be angled down and also to make it easier and a shorter distance to bring the newly rounded tongue to the roof of my mouth to the K spot to make the note bend.
DAVE AND JOE'S STICK YOUR TONGUE OUT DRILL - WITH INDEX FINGER - NO HARMONICA - SEARCH OF K SPOT
This drill made the tip or front part of my tongue, (blade) be aiming more down. I practiced this drill with the Harmonica out of my mouth and having my index finger touch my tongue which is out of my mouth. Dave shows Joe this drill.
When practicing songs e.g. I will drop the Harmonica and stick my tongue out and have my index finger simulate the face of the Harmonica. Bad habits are hard to change.
This drill brought my tongue out more so I could, A, feel it, and B have it work with the K spot.
This drill stopped me from using my throat to speak the sounds or creating a gutteral bear growl sound to force a bend. I could not do any other hole other than 1,2 or three with the throat activation process. I believe the K spot probably resides in the Bear's Den down in the throat, but I was lost as what my tongue was doing.
I could not find my tongue or use it without sticking it out more. I used Windows Movie Maker and my Video Cam and found out that all I was doing was doing AHH, like a Doctor would ask you to do.
I was voicing the sounds but not at all using my tongue. That's history, good riddance.
STOP SINGING DAMN IT - WHEN K SPOT MOVES, IT SINGS
Don't make any on purposeful sounds, let the proper establishment of the Harmonica in my mouth and concentrate on the draw note to the right of my tongue. The creation of the correct placement and the harp with my new grip allowed me to find my K spot and let my newly extended rounded tongue go up to the roof of my mouth and then squeeze it forward.
CURVED TONGUE AND THE K SPOT, WITH A "L" ON IT'S BACK
By sticking my tongue out of my mouth it created a curve or more of a hump in the tongue's shape that later on when I felt for the K spot , (not saying K) but where the K spot was defined by my roof of my mouth and my more humped tongue.
USE THE DIAPHRAGM - STICK THE GUT OUT
To drop the note, I DID NOT REALIZE THAT I HAD TO stick my diaphragm or stomach OUT to do this. It was probably taught somewhere but I did not do this. This is huge. That kicks the note down big time.
THE BEND - HALLELUJAH
During the bending I then only concentrated on the K Spot trying to bring my bent tongue UP to the roof of my mouth and squeeze it FORWARD towards the front of my mouth. I concentrate on a L SHAPE like this
|_______
My tongue would be curved a little up and my tongue sticking out onto my Harmonica with my new grip.
THE MARCH FORWARD TO BEND THE NOTE - K SPOT AND "L" DO THEIR THING
All I do know is to have my tongue go to the roof of my mouth, (where the K spot is) and move everything forward with the L shape that is on its side. I use my diaphragm to kick it in its butt.
I can now sense and feel the pressure in the constricted area where my newly humped tongue is going UP to meet the K spot and then both of them are going with my L shape FORWARD.
I AM NOT TRYING TO SAY ANY SOUNDS NOW BECAUSE THAT WOULD GET MY DAM THROAT WORKING, the moving forward after going up and the constricting pressure GENERATES THE CHANGE OF SOUND. Not me.
Voila, I bent the note. Yes!
SUMMARY
I had to open my mouth and see what is going on. I used a movie maker.
I stuck my tongue out. Steadied the Harmonica with a new grip. I achieved the tongue block and have the note that I wanted to bend on the right side.
I forgot the sounds and the throat.
I stuck my tongue out, steadied the Harmonica thought of the note that I wanted to bend, sensed what the top part of my tongue would be doing to meet the top of my mouth to initiate a K consonant. Not a K sound.
I stopped singing or speaking any sounds just using feel
The top of my tongue and K spot then came together and they moved forward with a laid down L shape to the front of a squeezing constricting front of my mouth.
Thank you Winslow and David. You guys are great!
Now on to fixing the economy!
Will Out
Will. Go back to the Bending exercises and listen to all the Players in the Interview section on the right side of the screen. I started Lip Pursing and taught myself to Tongue Block everything after a few years. I say go to the interview section because this is a very personal technique and everybody does it a little bit different. After tongue Blocking for a while I found that I had lost my chops at Lip Pursing and had to go back and relearn that technique. Mix it up.. Get your tongue Block on and get your Lip Purse on.. Have fun!!! Don't put yourself in a box... Hope this helps... Tommy Hutch