Epiphone valve junior vs Fender VibroChamp XD
I just scored an Epi VJ. The combo, version 3. Head to head using a 99g86 element in a JT30, with the amps stock, I think it's no contest. The fender is a street better as a harp friendly amp. I'm using voice 4 on the fender, that's the same pre amp voice as the clean channel on the super champ . (ithink you don't have separate control of gain on the super champ's clean channel though). Anyway, this is stock, but secondhand I think they are about the same price. I'm gonna start messing with the epi now and see if it gets better.
Fender VCXD +1: epi VJ 0
This mod is great for Valve Junior.
http://www.lonewolfblues.com/projepimod.html
Sound is much better and feedback is on control and volume is louder.
It's worth of doing.
Greta little amp with my old Boss ME-5 pedal.
jk
I opened up the Epi and installed an EHX 12AU7.
Now we're getting somewhere. Much wider range on the volume control. With a 12AX7 I could move it to 9 o'clock. Now I can take it up to about 2 o'clock. It still has a good sound (somewhat to my surprise. Every other amp I have used this tube in sounded very wimpy with it), and now I can dial it in much better.
Set up like this Id say the epi is maybe sounding a bit nicer than the fender, but I haven't done an A/B yet.
I picked up a "legacy" branded amp. It's the 'valve head' model. Everything about it seems to indicate its basically the same as the epiphone valve jr head, except it has an eq pot. I think this makes it likely to be the same as the Harley Benton GA5H.
I removed the chassis and compared it to the Epi Vj. The circuit layout is the same apart from the eq. There may be some differences in component values.
What I don't understand is why it is so much quieter than my Epi. Something must be wrong. It sounds like its already been modified. Way less gainy; I can turn it up to 2 o'clock without a hint of feedback.
I have another thread dealing with modding the Legacy Valve Head. I am really happy with how that turned out. I use it with the twin 8" webers and its really lively. That is now my favourite small amp. I compared it in a practice room situation with the Epi combo, and its just much better. With a range of mics the modified version is more controllable, much more pleasing sound. I'd modify the Epi for harp too, but how many 5 watt harp amps does one man need? I may sell the combo, in which case it may be better left stock?
Back to the original concept of this thread though: comparison to the Fender Vibro Champ XD.
I took the fender to my mates shed for practice, and I was underwhelmed. But it was not a great scenario, having to keep levels quite low.
I've been a fan of this Fender for a while. But compared to the modified Epi (Legacy) I think it sounds rather tame. I'll take it to band practice tonight and see how it sounds in that context. It's possible I am just feeling inclined to my modified amp because I've personalised it.
I took the fender to practice with a 4 piece band.
Upright bass, drums, guitar.
When first setting up I thought the amp sounded quite wimpy and had a tendency to feedback very easily. Then I noticed the voice setting was at 1. I set it to 4 (same voicing as the SuperChamp XD "clean" channel)
This is by far the best choice for this amp with harp. It's relatively feedback resistant, relatively clean depending on how you adjust the gain and volume. Quite a flexible setting. I set tone with bass full up, treble right down. Set the DSP effect to delay, effect level about 3 or 4. I had gain at about 3.5, volume around 5. Amp sounded good like this, better with volume at 6, but I was too loud as it was. I dropped the volume and upped the gain a little. Very good.
To wrap this up, imho the bottom line is :
The Fender VibroChamp XD is hands down a better amp for harp than a stock Epi valve junior of any stripe. It's far more flexible in that it can sound good at arrange of volume levels, the inbuilt DSP effects are useable. As a bonus it's also quite a handy guitar amp, again with quite a few tricks to its bag.. It also has a line out feature.
The modifications I made to my Epi head transformed it. I'd say the modified Epi is better-sounding than the Fender, but it does not have the flexibility in volume levels. I can get the Fender sounding good across quite a range of volume, whereas the Epi has a smaller range where it really comes to life. It's very cool in that range though!
Maybe with a preamp pedal it could also sound good at lower volumes.
I also don't know about how the modded Epi is as a guitar amp. Stock, it does quite a good job as a blues amp, with the volume up and the tone and overall volume controlled at the guitar (preferably a strat).
My Epi is now my favourite small amp for situations which are well suited to its output, but the Fender is my most useful small amp.
i eventually got around to modifying that original Epi VJ mk3 combo...pulled the stock board altogether and replaced it with an eyelet board which i set up with a 6V6 socket and handwired.
its awesome,but i didnt set it up as a harp amp. its a bit gainy for harp, very willing to feedback, but it sounds GREAT up to that point. great little guitar amp now. i reckon it would be a neat harp amp with a 12AY7. i'll give that a try...
the V3 has the Eminence Lady Luck speaker, and i think thats a good little speaker for harp.
but...next! i just picked up another "Legacy" branded combo. NIB, NOS. i dont know which version Epi it equates to yet...1 or 2...but i'll do a lone wolf mod on it i think...if its a V1 i'll use my V3 PCB
fun!
Hi There!
I just mod my Epi with Dana Hall VVR kit.
http://www.ampmaker.com/store/VVR-kit-for-cathode-biased-amplifiers.html
Now its great little home training amp. I can now open volume control as much as I like to get nice distortion sound and what's the best is that I can set amp output volume with VVR pot. Sound keeps still nearly same as amp with full volume.
fine
2 years on and i revisited the Valve jr project. it just never quite did the business as a harp amp, and while it was an OK guitar amp, it wasn't getting any use and wasnt likely to.
as described above, i'd already modified it somwhat by replacing the PCB with a handwired version of the circuit, in which the major change was use of a 6V6GT instead of the EL84..
the amp was still quite similiar to the stock amp though, just a different power tube and some small changes to component values here and there, so i made the modifications to the preamp as suggested by randall Landry on his Lone Wolf Blues Coy site...you can find the project on the home page, under the 'projects' list on the left of the page
http://www.lonewolfblues.com/projepimod.html
i built the version with single input, but included the treble cut tone pot.
i had it running fr about a week and then added the tone pot yesterday and took it straight out to jam...
tbh. i think i'm not a fan of 8" speakers in a jam with a few things going on. this jam was fairly quiet but had drums, bass, and 2 guitars..amps were not huge but still, even though the 8" was completely up to the job of being heard, its just not a great sound imho.
however, one of the beauties of these later epiphone valve jrs is the multiple taps (4, 8, and 16 ohm) from the OT, meaning you have some versatility with speakers. i plugged the 'Lone Wolf 6V6 version) valve jr into an 8 ohm 20watt 12" cab with closed back and it was right at home in the mix. in fact, it was quite a bit bigger-sounding than the 50watt hybrid guitar amp (vox VT50). i was actually able to play quietly in a full band jam using a 5watt am...amazing.
i know the amps have been out of production for quite a while and there are other cheap units which have become popular platforms for DIY harp amp modding in recent times, but there are still a few valve jrs about and theyre cheap. Randy's mods are fairly straightforward and result in a much friendlier and good-sounding preamp compared to the stock unit, and matched with a decent cab i believe the amp becomes quite acceptable.
the only thing i have reservation about in the LW mod is that it doesnt address the plate and screen voltage on the power tube. i do think the stock amp runs the tube hard. this was brought home to me when i heard the difference between a stock amp which had been used for a while, and a NOS amp. The difference was very marked and clearly attributable to worn power tube.
the difference is perhaps greater in the USA where wall voltage is around 120VAC and the valve jr uses a transformer set for 115VAC input voltage, resulting in correspondingly higher output from the transformer.
To address this i have modded my valve juniors to drop the plate voltage from the stock 330v+ (it varies) by changing resistor R10 to a higher value. in USA you might replace R10 with a 1K 3w resistor (stock value is 220R, 2w). i used a 680R, 2 w resistor for mine (i'm on 240VAC, and the VJ power tranny is calibrated for 240).
i believe this is a real issue. not only have i observed early tube wear in used VJ amps, i have seen scorching on PCB around base of the power tube in one of my amps. this one had been running on 240VAC for a while but was set up for 230VAC which would be a similar % difference in output as the US power supply issue mentioned above.
especially if one might want to use NOS tubes, i think it would be wise to consider replacing R10 also when modding the amp.
This thread just caught my eye again. I have taken my Epiphone Valve Special to the club and I am so overwhelmed in volume by the guitarists that I must mic my amp to the PA to have a chance at hearing myself. (Not ideal) My amp is unmodified and does have feedback issues with a 520DX mic. My first tube amp is this amp which was inexpensive and as amp at home I do learn a lot and have a great time learning to cup properly over time and experimenting. However jamming I would love to have the volume. Lately Ive been using an EV635 stick mic directly into the PA when at an open mic.
A few weeks ago, at a music store staffed by a Sound Man who has done sound many times for Jerome Godboo and Carlos Deljunco when in Ontario, I was encouraged to have a look at a Fender 15w. (Black case but I cannot remember the name of the amp). Given this mans credentials I was intrigued.
So, Dave, this seems to me to be very similar to the comparisons you are making.
I feel I would perhaps like to have both amps but with the intention of modifying the Epiphone. I have not touched Electronics since college (a long time ago) and became a carpenter, but I'm not shy to give it a go.
Maybe you would recommend the same Mod you did if the circuits are similar between the junior and the Valve Special.
And thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences.
John
Hi John, i've jsut tried to get a quick look at the valve special circuit, and from what i saw i can say it will take more than a quick look to see exactly what impact the mods i implemented would have. the special is somewhat different to the junior. i think its a different ball game. i doubt you could just apply the same changes, but maybe the same principles could be applied. i'll try to remember to look into it later..not too much later.
i like the 10" speaker and the larger cab, but the preamp looks to be setup quite differently and there is a lot of Digital Signal Processing going on which is beyond my ken.
Regarding the idea of a larger amp, this is the way to be heard in my view. I'm not sure if 15w will be enough, but maybe. the Fender amps which spring to mind in that range are the Pro Junior, the Blues Jr, the Super Champ X2 and the Princeton Reverb Re-Issue. They are all around that power rating and have 10" speakers. i have reservations about the Blues Jr as a harp amp but the other 3 are all solid options. it may come down to price...and personal preference. the Super Champ gives you some of that Digital Signal processing, the Princeton Reverb has Reverb and Tremolo and the Pro Jr...i dont know much about from personal experience but it has a great reputation
i have an old Princeton Reverb and i do like it (very much!) but its not always adequate to be heard on stage. it just really depends how loud things are on stage and how you can setup. some stages are very tight and its difficult to get ideal amp placement. eventually i went to a 410 amp and i really wish i had just gone there earlier. pain in the butt to load and unload though...
I built a speaker cab loaded with 2 x 8" weber 8A100 speakers. It's a 4 ohm box. Plugging the epi into this I think improved it quite a bit. A little less touchy feedback wise and the tone is a bit smoother, and perhaps brighter in a good way. More even response across the range I think. The fender is harder to call on. It's different, and it's good but I'm not sure it's 'better'. But I already liked the sound of the fender. With the twin speakers I can turn it up more so I suppose that means the webers have lower sensitivity. It's pretty good sound, anyway. I think the fender still sounds a little better. Plus it has usable on board effects. As far as tone goes, its bass maxed, treble off, which is much the same as not having tone controls.
I'll try recording them now.