Dan Echo Circuit Change........?
David,
In your latest amp review for the Valve Train Tall Boy, you mention something that piqued my interest. You said that you're no longer using the Dan Echo pedal for your reviews because the circuit had recently changed. Can you elaborate on this a bit? I thought they stopped making this pedal back in the '90s. Have they introduced a new version of this pedal? Why did you decide to drop your old model that you've been using? When did the circuit change happen? And lastly, what is it in the circuit change that you dislike?
Hi, sorry to jump in.
After seeing Dave's comments I did some diggiing and found the following.
http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?t=25260
I needed to register to see the images.
It seems there has been a redesign at some point. I think the older version has the large pt2395 delay chip.
Anyway thought I would share, it might be some help.
Edit: Added how the older one looked? (I think)
http://www.e-basteln.de/other/danecho/danecho
Cheers
Gnat
Thank you Gnat
This could be a bummer...
My old Dan Echo is starting to act a little flakey. I used it for years on guitar before using it with my harp and it's been through the ringer and dropped and kicked around too much. I've been thinking about replacing it with another, but now maybe I will look at the Lone Wolf instead. I've been tempted to get that one for years. I have Randy's Harp Reverb pedal and love it.
What stinks is now maybe I'll need two different echo pedals -- one for my guitars and one for my harps...
Rats. I really like my Dan Echo.
Gnat and David,
Poking around a bit more on this subject, it appears that the newer Dan Echo pedals have an impedance mismatch issue with crystal mics. I've seen this mentioned now on several forums after searching, and on the site that Gnat references there's this:
"The input impedance of the DanEcho is much lower than the 1 MOhm typically found in tube amps – only about 100 kOhm for the DanEcho. Crystal and ceramic mics are especially sensitive to such a lower-impedance load; they will lose a lot of the low frequency part of their output. Dynamic microphones (including the older controlled reluctance types etc.) are not as sensitive to lower impedances. This would explain why users of dynamic mics, like the Green Bullet, may be happier with their DanEcho than JT-30 users."
This could be why you were so unhappy with the performance of the newer pedal with your vintage mic element, David (if it was the crystal). I don't think you mentioned which of your mics you used with the new Dan Echo, but an interesting experiment would be to try a dynamic or CR mic with the pedal and then your crystal. It's got me wondering how my new Bulletini would sound with the current Dan Echo since it's a dynamic mic.
On the other hand, I might just say the hell with it, and get the Lone Wolf...
The mic I tried it with was a CR. I recommend you say the hell with it, and get the Lone Wolf.
LOL! Done!
I have a velvet color delay and there is a guy near by with a burgundy one for sale. I put the pictures of both in the folder at my google drve. Can you look at these pictures David and See if you identify the original. I dont know, the one i have works like a ordinary delay , but you never know what your missing if you havnt listen to it. Thank you https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1Bjj5V41OJ7W_1qVGb2d4e9JVU34D6NMV
Hello J.Connolly403. I'm off for the holidays and won't be back to my school until the 1st. Sorry for the delay, but I'll look at my delay when I get to the office and will let you know.
J.Connolly403,
Gnat mentioned above that the older model has a long chip mounted that is marked PT2395. I verified that this is true in my unit, which was bought when the Dan Echo first came out. The board also encompasses the entire center pylon. I looked inside a friend of mine's unit that was purchased much later, and it has a smaller chip and a board that only takes up about half of the cavity and does not surround the center pylon. There's definitely a difference in tone between the older and newer units. I looked more closely into this when David described his experience above. My friend is a guitar player, so we compared our two pedals using our guitars and not harps. The newer pedal definitely has a bit of tone suck even on guitar. It kind of comes off flat and one-dimensional to my ear. He never really noticed it as it was the only Dan Echo he'd used.
Mine is getting a bit fussy and it's close to retirement. I ordered the Lone Wolf Harp Delay pedal to replace it for my harp. I've had the Lone Wolf Harp Reverb for a while and it's one of my favorite pedals for harp. I'm sure the Harp Delay will be great, too. I'll have to pick something else up for my guitar playing. Right now, I'm looking at the old standbys MXR Carbon Copy and the Boss RV-6. Haven't decided which one yet.
Here's a pic of the inside of an older Dan Echo pedal:
By your images, it appears that you have the older model board, which is good. The second pic of the burgundy-colored pedal might not be an echo pedal. It looks like the Fab Tone distortion pedal. I'd have to see the other side to know for sure. Some folks painted their pedals with crazy colors, and Danelectro used the same case for a number of them. The Fab Tone would look like this on the top:
If you're looking at used Dan Echo's, aside from the older vs newer circuit, pay particular attention to the jacks. They have been notorious for failing as they are plastic and I've seen several that have cracked. If everything is in good shape, you can't beat the Dan Echo pedal. I'm really going to miss mine when it finally gives up the ghost.
Thank you J Judson. Your correct in that the burgandy unit is a Fat Tone distortion pedal. I wasn't sure what this person was selling in his ad because he had it listed with another pedal that had the delay. Now I know. I called the seller this morning.
I hope every one has a very nice Christmas and a Happy New Year.
I really appreciate your time in helping me. So cool to have you all when you need answers.
By the way, don't shy away from effects pedals outside of delay and reverb. I know some blues harp purists aren't big fans of effects, but I came from a rock band background on guitar and synthesizer, so I love to play around with different sounds. Blues/Rock musician Jason Ricci is a big effects guy and I really love his sound. His latest setup includes a full compliment of pedals:
- Harp Shield (Feedback Fighter/Gate) -- Lone Wolf Blues Company
- Clean Cat (Clean Boost/Sparkle) -- Lone Wolf Blues Company
- Harp Break (Pre-Amp/Distortion) -- Lone Wolf Blues Company
- Flat Cat (Optical Compressor) -- Lone Wolf Blues Company
- AF-9 (Auto Wah/Envelope Filter) -- Maxon
- Pitch Fork (Octave/Pitch Shifter) -- Electro Harmonix
- Chorus (Chorus) -- Stigtronics
- Carbon Copy (Analog Delay) -- MXR
- Harp Reverb (Spring Effect) -- Lone Wolf Blues Company
- Sonic Stomp (Sonic Maximizer) -- BBE
My pedal board consists of a Line 6 Helix, which has 12 footswitches that can be programmed with over 200 amp, cabs, mic, and effects models. Ironically, with all of those effects, I still plug in my Dan Echo and Harp Reverb pedals along with whatever amp I'm using. I just use the board to try different sound combinations outside of those basics. It's pretty amazing what you can get out of a tiny little harp when you start running some wave mods on the input.
Glad I was able to help. You have a great Christmas and New Years as well!
jjudson, send me an email from the contact us page and I'll send you pics of my delay opened.
Hello Jon. I've been using this pedal for a long time (over ten years) and it has been available on the market all this time. When I went to replace one of the two I have that died, when I plugged the new one in (which from the outside looked identical), it sounded very different. I opened the battery cover to the old one and the new one, and they're different inside. I don't know what they changed, but it doesn't sound good now.