Skip to main content
Blues Harmonica logo

User Account

Username:*
Password:*
Forgot Your Password?

Visitor Menu

  • Sign Up
  • Sample Lesson #1
  • Sample Lesson #2
  • Student Recordings
  • Forums
Forums :: General Discussion

Dancing Influence the Direction of Blues Music? New videos at end of videos stuff

7 replies [Last post]
Sat, 08/28/2010 - 10:59
Anne Marie Jackson
Anne Marie Jackson's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/23/2009

David suggests that we all do a six-month tour of learning the drums, guitar, and base, just so we know how to communicate with the band. I say, we should all do a six-month tour of what good blues dancing is, even if it's lecture and demonstration.

I've been thinking about this topic for some time. I've danced most of my life, but, during the past decade or so I've been swing and blues dancing. I've been frustrated going to dances and finding dancers and some DJs who don't understand blues music, and, then I go to hear great bands and get frustrated because everyone is just sitting and listening--like I'm in church and the preacher is going on and on, and I'm fidgeting sitting on my hands, thinking, "Yeah. I get it. Don't do anything we like to do. Can we go now? (and do something we like to do?:-)

But that's not the way it's always been. In Jacqui Malone's book, Steppin' on the Blues: The Visible Rhythms of African American dance, Malone puts it this way, "Most European conceptions of art would separate music from dance and both music and dance from the social situations that produced them. Most traditional African conceptions, on the other hand, couple music with one or more other art forms, including dance. And most Africans experience music as part of a multidimensional social event that may take place in a village square, a town plaza, a courtyard...." For them, it's not about the performers being up on a stage and the queen sitting quietly to the side in her royal box seat observing. It's about participation.

Then I listen to Rod Piazza talk about the development of West Coast Swing, and I wonder how much of the faster tempo is influenced by audiences demanding faster music because all they know is West Coast or East Coast swing dancing, which is done to faster music. Most American musicians I meet don't know what the dances are that can be danced to blues music, and what each of them is: West Coast Swing, East Coast Swing, Lindy Hop (bent knees, the root dance to West and East Coast swing), and Blues dancing (real blues dancing, in my book, based on Chicago blues music and dancing and the African aesthetic of dancing--bent knees, with the body tilted forward in an athletic stance--like in basketball--danced in a grounded way--into the ground. You literally "get down." It also has a clear physical representation of the beat--referred to as the "pulse"). Good Chicago blues just makes you want to do this if you dance. It has a way of grounding you and making your dancing earthy.

The West Coast Swing has its origins in country western dancing. It is done to swing rhythms, but the knees are straight and the back is even tilted backwards, not forward. It has an up feeling, away from the earth. It is done in a very formalized straight slot, like a little runway to which the dancers are constrained. In short, it's very Europeanized, like our music listening venues. In the same book, Malone says, "Africans sang a slave song that urged dancers to "gimme de kneebone bent." To many western and central Africans, flexed joints represented life and energy, while straightened hips, elbows, and knees epitomized rigidity and death. The bent kneebone symbolized the ability to 'get down'."

But! If the music isn't doing that you will want to stand upright with straight knees and something's gone. Something's lost in the music. If you try to appeal to that kind of audience will your music also lose this magic?Count Basie knew his dancers at the Savoy Ballroom. And he knew who the good dancers were. He engaged them and had musical conversations with them.

If you study African dance long enough, you will eventually start learning to drum. If you study African drumming long enough, you will eventually start learning to dance. Know, learn to feel what the music does to your body. Learn and understand and recognize and encourage the good dancers by playing to them when you see them in the audience.

Amen.

P.S. (Don't tell anyone, but if I do say so myself, I've been known to do a pretty mean West Coast Swing, and, if the music calls for it, I'll crack bubble gum and do an East Coast Swing (6 count jitterbug), or even the abomination of a dance, the ballroom jive (but then again, I can have fun doing the polka if you get me drunk enough).

Top
Sun, 08/29/2010 - 03:50
#1
CityJoe
CityJoe's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/21/2010
video's!

video's!

Top
Sat, 02/05/2011 - 12:05
#2
Anne Marie Jackson
Anne Marie Jackson's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/23/2009
Videos

I don't have a video of the untrained dancers, but here are some examples of good and bad dancing from trained dancers.

AFRICAN DANCE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH6yC7GjqZk

LINDY HOP (8 count or 6-count phrases, 6 count is called East Coast):
Lindy Hop: The mother of all swing dances: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTg5V2oA_hY

Modern Lindy Hop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD2UY7Pf0Hk

Slow Lindy Hop, more bluesey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcqig6rBgFk

BALLROOM EAST COAST, the "JIVE" (6 count swing) IMHO: Should NEVER be danced to blues (can be done tongue in cheek to 1950s type jitterbug music): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcVAKUNrKzE

NEW.....Boogie Woogie is popular in Europe and can be done to fast blues. This is a 50s style dance, not real popular in the states right now, but it should be! It really gets down. Right now, this speed of music is a large part of our repertoire. I hope dancers start catching on to that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QQzbCmlZM4

WEST COAST SWING IMHO: AVOID when dancing to blues. Example of a DON"T DO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwcbjF2ugA4 (and the guys are saying, "I don't get it. Is there some complaint about what this women is doing with her body?)

But, if you're going to do West Coast Swing, Yeah, like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LYpH4dx1W4&playnext=1&list=PL1DB8C760E62...

BLUES DANCING, Swing Dancing's evil cousin:
Blues Dancing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv-fAK5EcYU&feature=related

More blues dancing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whr0Y16rbic&p=EC6A35422FBB47F9&playnext=1...

NEW.....Even more blues dancing....stay to see the last couple dancing. They won the competition, Dexter Santos and Laura Glaess (the guy in the white shirt with the woman in the striped sweater): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JgMsFx9pikM#

Guys, you only need a few basic moves to get the girls on the dance floor, as long as they're done well with the "bowling ball in your stomach" effect, as explained in this video (they are really teaching grounding, not pulse in this video, but it's a good explanation of grounding--getting down):
Basic blues dancing lesson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g73dj93cPLM

Top
Tue, 08/31/2010 - 09:19
#3
CityJoe
CityJoe's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/21/2010
great stuff, but do you also

great stuff, but do you also have video's of yourself? Would be great to see that!

Top
Wed, 09/01/2010 - 00:45
#4
Anne Marie Jackson
Anne Marie Jackson's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/23/2009
I'd love to have some videos

I'd love to have some videos of myself, but since I do partner dancing it's hard to capture what I do with a good partner to music I like. I'm planning to bring my camera with me to upcoming dances, practice, or lessons to see what I can get. Thanks for asking.

Top
Sun, 10/17/2010 - 12:05
#5
Anne Marie Jackson
Anne Marie Jackson's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/23/2009
It just occurred to me to

It just occurred to me to give you guys a summary from a band's perspective:

Blues Dancing music: If you play slow, gut bucket songs you are going to attract the blues dance crowd; and vice versa: if one of the blues dance camps invites you to play for their Saturday night dances (Hello, these guys have potential gigs), you will want to play a lot of gut bucket. The dance camps attract more advanced dancers, so they will know how to do blues dancing to faster music, but not too fast. It should still have that grounded beat, like having a bowling ball in your stomach. (No honky tonk music that makes you want to hop up.)

West Coast Swing: If you play a lot of fast shuffles, you will attract the swing crowd: medium fast = west coast swing.

Lindy (8-count) or east coast (6-count): medium fast to rather fast. You play regular 4/4 time, but the east coasters will mess with it, not your worry. Just telling you what you would see out there. (And the Lindy Hoppers are the most sophisticated. They will mix 8-count with 6-count, even throw in some 10-count phrases on top of you 4/4 time. Dancers are dancing to your phrases (typically 8 counts in the blues, not bar for bar.)--and may mess with those

Hmm. Maybe some sample songs would be useful. I just put it on my To Do list.

Top
Fri, 11/26/2010 - 00:15
#6
Anne Marie Jackson
Anne Marie Jackson's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/23/2009
Just changed up my West Coast Swing and Blues Examples

The Master himself, Barry Douglas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv-fAK5EcYU&feature=related

Top
Mon, 12/13/2010 - 02:31
#7
Anne Marie Jackson
Anne Marie Jackson's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/23/2009
Every Groove a Bluesman Who Plays for Dancers Needs to Know

So, you all bought your Jimi Lee CD called Every Groove a Bluesman Needs to Know, right?

Here are the grooves from that CD that, in my opinion, will work for the most popular swing dances (Lindy Hop, 6-count, West Coast Swing, and Blues Dancing):

Blues Dancing (really should be called "Slow Blues Dancing"):
6-9 Groove
Real Easy Groove
Slow Blues
Eight Bar Blues
Last Night
Tramp Groove (maybe just once in an evening--for advanced dancers)
Teen Beat (could be danced to 1/2 time, but play only once in a while)

Lindy Hop:
Jimmy Reed Shuffle
Swing Shuffle

West Coast Swing:
Texas Shuffle
Box Pattern
Mustang Sally

6-count or Boogie Woogie (popular in Europe):
Jump Swing
Teen Beat
Rock Beat

Do NOT play for swing dancers:
Train Beat
Rumba
Bo Diddley Beat
Straight Eight
Two Beat Country
Born in Chicago
John Lee Hooker (groove that is...but many slow JLH songs are popular for slow blues)
Flat Tire

P.S. Blues dancers don't think of themselves as "swing dancers," but most of them started as swing dancers and they think they are making a big change to a different kind of dance, not realizing that the rhythms of blues is predominantly swing and that's why they like it. Blues dancing is often called "swing dancing's evil cousin." I see the same crowd at both dances, and often there are two rooms at the same dance, one for "swing" and one for "blues." Blues dancing was revived in the past 12 years through the Lindy Hop community (the mother of all swing dances).

If this information is of any interest to people. I'll try to match some of these grooves with song examples. Let me know.

P.S. I've been dancing swing and blues for about a decade and I also DJ, so that's how I know this stuff. (And also sit out a lot of songs from bands that don't know their dances.)

Top

Sign me up!

Full access to all lessons starts at $20/month! (with annual subscription)

Subscribe

Free Sample Lessons

After watching the BluesHarmonica.com overview video, try one of the lessons below to experience a lesson at BluesHarmonica.com.

  • Tongue Blocking Study 2 – This study is for the newer player or the player new to tongue blocking
  • Bending Study 5 – This is for the advanced player looking to improve their bending skills

Contributors

  • Aki Kumar
  • Joe Tartaglia
  • Gary Smith
  • Mark Hummel
  • Joe Filisko

Site Links

  • About David Barrett
  • Accredited Instructors
  • Links
  • Terms and Conditions
  • Contact Us
Hohner
© 2009 - 2025 David Barrett and the Harmonica Masterclass Co. for Bluesharmonica.com